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MaasTricht_09

Page history last edited by Tom van Bodegraven 13 years, 9 months ago

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 18, 2008

World Championships too costly for organisers

 

The World Championship 2009 will now not be held in Maastricht, Holland. The Dutch federation simply cannot find the money for it. They negotiated to have it in another city in Holland and these negotiations with the potential provider initially went well. However, the new venue puled out as they perceived the current shortfall of 175.000 euro too much of a risk. The Dutch federation has handed the offer back to FIPJP.

 

I think this is a serious development and I can think of lots of questions here. If the Dutch can’t find the money why can Senegal? The Chinese blamed the earthquake for pulling out of the World Women Championship - was this the truth?. How much does it actually cost? Can it be done for less? Has our desire to be professional about things, put up the cost beyond what is realistic for a minority sport?

 

Many thanks to Rita de Beer for sharing this important news item with us.

 

posted by NZPC Editor (Tom) @ 6:50 PM 5 comments

16 Comments:

 

At 7:40 PM, Anonymous said...

You must have overheard us, discussing the same topic over lunch, we cannot understand either why a rich nation like the Netherlands is not able to hold the World Championships Petanque! How do they do it in Senegal? We do not know how big the sport Petanque is in Senegal, although a minor sport in Holland I know that they have 220 clubs, 16 regions more than 16000 active players, mainly among the 55+.

 

Out of interest I looked how much they pay for License fees: from 10 euro's for youth, 25 euro's for seniors and 35 euro's for competitive players. Club fees under 25 members 100 euro's ($200.-) p.a. and more than 25 members $145.- ($290.-) p.a. Most clubs have indoor & bar facilities, they play all year round, I think you can compare it with Bowling in NZ in the good old days.

Rita de Beer

 


 

At 7:49 PM, NZPC Editor (Tom) said...

Hi Rita,

Yes, clubs have good facilities. Whenever I was in Holland I would go to various chess clubs. This was great fun as all chess clubs in Holland have their own waiting staff. These people come to your table and take your order. Anything you like alcohol, hot drinks cakes, you name it. It is indeed a very rich country. An ultra-high tax regime has also provided the people of this small nation with a high level of social services.


 

At 11:19 AM, Anonymous said...

 

Hey Tom,

 

This poses a great opportunity for you to submit a proposal to FIPJP to hold the world champs in Masterton. I am sure all those Europeans would enjoy a kiwi bacon butty- and I think, as the host nation, NZ would be able to play two teams!

 

Joanne


 

At 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am at a loss as well as to why Holland canceled, and started a thread on petanque.org in the hope that whoever knows more about it can fill us in...

Philippe

Petanque America


 

Editorial comment: Good to see our friends in the USA are also concerned about the 2009 World Championship.

 

I am at a loss as to why our own PNZ "PR & Sponsorship Director" Joanne Lippard thinks this funding issue is an opportunity to be "funny" - all rather misplaced and embarrassing.

 

It is important to understand when it is, and when it isn't appropriate to make fun and poke ridicule at others. Some people are simply unable to decipher when it is the right time and when it is the wrong time to say something “funny”.

-Tom.


 

I just discovered that the Netherlands Petanque Federation has recently decided NOT to organize 2009 after all, for - what seems to be - lack of funds.

I am very disappointed because I was convinced Maastricht 2009 would be THE showcase of a truly multilingual, international and well organized tournament.

Alexander Bauer of the German Petanque Federation also wrote an alarming article on Boulistenaute:

http://www.boulistenaute.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10034

 

What exactly is the problem?

In WC's, who exactly pays what?

 

Let's start a constructive, international discussion on what can and should be done to safeguard future WC's.

Text taken from petanque.org


 

Meanwhile the official website of Dakar 2008 has a new message (in French):

 

"Dakar 2008 will probably be the last annual World Championship - following the cancellation of the Netherlands in 2009, the next World Championship will take place every 2 years, so see you in 2010 in ???."

 

"DAKAR 2008 sera probablement le dernier Championnat du Monde organisé tous les ans - suite au désistement des Pays Bas en 2009 le prochain Mondial se fera tous les 2 ans donc rendez-vous en 2010 à ????."

Text taken from petanque.org


 

There was once a (annual) world championship out there in the world. But now nobody except France itself seems to be able to host a world championship!

 

Article by Ratisbonne (Alexander Bauer, Sport-Director of the D.P.V. Germany)

 

 

World Championship of Women 2008 in China - suspended....

World Championship of Seniors 2009 in the Netherlands - suspended....

 

What a HORROR ! But it is real - it is the truth!

 

It is time for a change - a complete one within the FIPJP !

 

My proposals: ......

 

Thesis 1: We need a biannual (= every two year) world championship for Seniors, in the same year with the biannual world championship of women. At the same year in Europe the European Championship of Youth (m/f) and Espoirs (m/f)

 

Thesis 2: In the following year it changes: biannual European championship for Seniors, in the same year with the biannual European championship of women. At the same year in Europe the biannual World Championship of Youth (m/f) and Espoirs (m/f)

 

Thesis 3: Every country is responsible for its costs. No host has to pay in future e.g. for the hotel. Transfer and maybe the farewell dinner for the players should be covered by the hosting federation at a maximum service. The world championship - as it is now - can not further be managed by 98% of the federations!

 

Thesis 4: There can be a possibility for the poorest countries to lower the costs of travelling: Sponsors should in future take over Hotelcosts of e.g. the 10 smallest and poorest participating federations/countries. But there may not be a "Must" for the hosting federation!

 

Thesis 5: The European Championship and all other continental championships should be served as a qualification for the next year's world championship, e.g.:

 

Europe - 39 federations - 20 to be qualified

Africa - 18 federations - 11 to be qualified

Asia - 14 federations - 9 to be qualified

Oceania - 4 federations - 3 to be qualified

North America - 2 federations - 2 being qualified

South America - 1 federation - 1 being qualified

plus - 1 Team of Host and 1 team of titleholder

 

Thesis 6: the fact, there are more and more countries in the FIPJP means higher costs and bigger efforts by the hosts year by year. Therefore we need a limit of e.g. 48 Teams for a world championship!

 

Thesis 7: We need world championships as international events - but not as such events where you can see absolute beginners throwing chinese balls on a world championship (like I personally saw in Pattaya). Therefore we need a minimum standard of qualification!

 

Sincerely,

Alexander Bauer

DPV-Vizepräsident Sport des Deutschen Pétanque Verbands

 

Text taken from boulistenaute.com


 

At 9:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

 

Hi guys,

 

The earthquake in china was an excuse, the Women Worlds have been called off before this sad event.

About Senegal the Government is forking out the money they don't need any private funding.

 

Remi from Sydney.


 

A two year modus for the World Championship is in the cards with the withdrawal of Holland to host the event in 2009.

Alright, that announcement ends with no less than four (4) question marks and probably is not yet set in stone. And the withdrawal of Holland is news to me. However, the trend in setting up World Championships is clearly pointing towards a two year modus, and I would even suggest to go all the way of limiting participation to 32 qualifiers even if it means that Japan would not automatically be part in every World Championship.

 

The Women World Championship, already on a two year modus, is also facing a struggle to find a new venue this year after China had to withdrawal recently. The FIPJP is supposedly looking at a new venue in Turkey, but no official announcement on that yet.

 

Text taken from: http://aoyama.petanque.cc/


 

Will from 2009, participation be limited to 32 qualifiers?. There is now a possibility that our 2007 World team of Simon Faby, Ron Sandilands and Murray Porter will be the last team that has represented New Zealand for quite some time. -Tom


 

Hi Philippe,

 

thanks for your engagement.

Things change. And FIPJP should react.

The time where only 40 nations sent out their teams on the hotel and lunch costs of a hosting federation/association are definetely over.

we currently have now about 78 countries within the FIPJP, 80% of them will always start at the world championships.

This means costs of 800.000 to 1.200.000 EURO (1.2 to 1.8 Million US-Dollars) for the hosting country.

Even the Netherlands with one of the most wealthy petanque federations can not manage this. meanwhile it is nearly impossible for any nation except France.

there are rumours the w.c. will be biannual (once every 2 years) in future - 2008, 2010, 2012, etc. - continental championships may be possible every 2 years (2009, 2011,...) :

 

""DAKAR 2008 sera probablement le dernier Championnat du Monde organisé tous les ans - suite au désistement des Pays Bas en 2009 le prochain Mondial se fera tous les 2 ans donc rendez-vous en 2010 à ?""

...read at: http://www.fipjp.com/~senegal/

 

I hope they also will reduce the number of participants. A maximum of 48 should be fair enough.

my suggestions are similar to those of the NJBB of Holland sent out to the FIPJP in addition to their cession of the W.C./Maastricht.

it is important to get a minimum standard of quality for the championships.

see under: http://www.boulistenaute.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10034

 

best regards,

Alexander Bauer, Deutscher Pétanque Verband

 

Text taken from http://www.petanque.org

 

-Tom.


 

Thanks Alexander.

 

So if I understand it correctly, under the current arrangement, the host country has to pay lodging and meals for all the delegations?

 

Let's do a simple calculation:

78 teams of 4 players plus one delegate or 78 x 5 = 390 people.

Let's say $100 / night per person lodging, assuming many can sleep with 2 in a room.

Let's say $40 / day for meals per person (cafeteria food, not gastronomic..)

That's $140 by 390 by 4 nights/days = $ 218,400

I agree that's a lot of money, but still far away from the $1.2 to 1.8 million you mention.

What did I miss?

 

Of course the host country also has to rent facilities, set up the event, etc... but isn't is safe to assume that those expenses can be offset by the sale of tickets and input from local sponsors? And if necessary, throw in another $100,000 for that, which brings us to $320,000.

 

But anyhow I do agree with your point # 3 that in the future every delegation should be responsible for its own expenses, minus local transfers and part of the event festivities.

Possibly with the provision that some of the players who have a limited budget can stay in people's homes instead of hotels, a common practice in international sports and cultural meets.

 

That way there would be no need to limit to 48 teams.

 

I'd like to see the WC as international as possible, from both angles: the number of countries that participate as well as the number of countries that can/want to host it. One should actually reach a scenario where countries are lining up hoping to be the next host country!

 

Anyone else wants to comment?

 

Philippe

 

Text taken from http://www.petanque.org/


 

it is not so simple as you thought, philippe!

 

already in 1996 the costs for germany/essen (=near dusseldorf) were more than 1.000.000 deutschmark (today around 550.000 euro). today it might be 800.000 to 1.000.000 euro. you forgot a lot of important things like employees, charges for the indoor hall, gala-dinner, additionel costs for vips, marketing products, etc. etc.

holland's njbb abandoned not because of the total costs but because of a leak of 170.000 euros they finally could not disburse. of course - a lot of money could be regained afterwards - but so far the initial costs were simply too high - as it is, in my opinion, for everyone here in europe except france.

the federation of senegal received a sum of 750.000 euro from their 'one-and-only' president (a quite low budget competition without a petanque indoor-hall as i heared). and, of course the main standard costs are higher in europe than in africa. furthermore we could begin to talk about the human rights in senegal and where all this money comes from..... but this is another story.

 

i also was once a fan of international petanque without any restriction - but after i watched a match india vs. lithuania in pattaya, i changed my mind completely. please do not take it amiss - and sorry for the players of india and lithuania who of course tried their best and were only the most remarkable ambassadors of these kind of petanque-killing selection teams i saw there, but this special game - as one of many examples on that day in thailand, was a real torture and a ridicule for everyone that loves this game and supports our sport. not possible to show that to the media, and destructive for petanque as a sport on a world championship. i was absolutely sure these people haven't played petanque more than 3 or 5 times in their life, they had no clue about technique, tactics and even the most simple rules like not to play with chinese fun balls at a world championship.

So far we need a minimum of a "soft qualification".

 

as we maybe will have a biannual continental championships in africa, asia and europe, we therefore are able to use them as instruments of qualification.

 

cheers,

alexander

 

Text taken from http://www.petanque.org/


 

"Could it be that money, politics, ........"

 

Eric,

No, don't worry, petanque is (still) too small to be affected by any of those.

 

It's more about an organization that is stuck in doing things "the way they've always been done", while the world of petanque has drastically changed. And that's where the contradiction comes in: FIPJP wants the game to grow worldwide, but makes it difficult for the "new" countries (i.e. most countries outside France) to host a WC.

 

Alexander,

Thanks for clarifying the expenses. No question about it that there are only a couple of countries that can afford this as long as the lodging & meals have to be paid for by the host country.

Like you I think a WC every two years is a good move, alternating with continental championships.

And yes, some type of minimum standards must be met. But still I remain partisan to "the more, the merrier", as long as every team takes care of its own expenses.

 

Numbers:

Last November, in the context of a discussion about the use of languages at Pattaya 2007 on Boulistenaute.com, I crunched & published the numbers of petanque's evolution worldwide. Here they are:

 

1978:

18 national federations, 6 of which 100% francophone, plus 3 partially francophone (Belgium, Canada, Switzerland).

403,963 licensees, of which 375,603 in France.

 

2006:

70 national federations, 14 of which francophone.

582,043 licensees, of which 367,247 in France.

 

Thus in 1978, France represented 93% of all licensees, whereas in 2006 around 63%.

 

Philippe

 

PS: for the record, I don't speak for any federation, just as an individual petanque "fanatic" ;-)

 

Text taken from http://www.petanque.org/

---

Philippe,

..understood. Thanks for the clarification. Nice to know it's just FIPJP that is making it difficult for other nations to host. Maybe there will be more supportive organisations in the future that eventually band together or perhaps establish a more cohesive, international support that is not exclusive.

 

time will tell.

 

regards,

Eric B

Text taken from http://www.petanque.org/

---

 

 


 

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