WEDNESDAY, JULY 02, 2008

National Representation Registration

PNZ National Representation Registration. The PNZ web site has made available a registration form for players wishing to be considered for international representation.

The PNZ website has omitted to publish the new selection and coaching process. It seems that people who do not get the PNZ magazine are out of luck. Enter the WPA website - this site takes "the rest of us" into account. Well done WPA.

Update 05/07: The info is now also available on the PNZ web site. There is a flowchart missing. If it’s done in Visio (not MS Word), please email the file to me and I will convert it to HTML.

It will be interesting to see if this new selection system is going to attract our top players.

posted by NZPC Editor (Tom) @ 6:54 PM

8 Comments:

At 8:57 AM, Anonymous said...

Good morning.

Not sure if i qualify as a top player. But i for one will not be putting my name forward. In the last three years in wellington we have had what i believe has been a good and robust way of picking our regional team ( some would disagree). Does this mean now that if i do not pay $50 dollars to the PNZ that i cannot represent my region? For me it is not about money ( minority sports all ways struggle) if i want to represent my country in this sport it already cost me a considarable amount of money. Travel costs, hotels etc. I am also not sure that this structure will put our best players forward but in fact will put forward the players who can afford it. I want to play for my country not pay for the right.

Myles.

At 2:16 PM, Anonymous said...

Myles,

I think you should give it a go. I think this is the most exciting development in representative petanque I have ever seen frankly and its fired me up. The 2 criticisms of the past for our minority sport and rep play have been "cost" and "transparency". This development deals to the latter and partly addresses the former (I think we can agree that we may never fully address the former).

I don't think not paying $50 will harm your Wgtn rep play (I can't see it affecting Hawke's Bay rep but can't speak for Wgtn), but I intend to put my hand in the pocket and pay the $50 to register. If I don't make the top 12, cest la vie. If I make the top 12, another $500, if I don't make the top 8, I get my 500 back - no foul. Total cost $50. The tourneys to qualify for, I will attend anyway so no extra cost. If i make the top 8, cost $550, but I'm in the team plus there is the $50 from the other registered players who didn't make it, less cost to hold the selection days.

Yeah, a pain to travel to Herne Bay, but who says life is fair.

Hope my musings above are correct and maybe you'll reconsider. U shud b on the piste, not on the sideline.

Mau

At 7:20 PM, NZPC Editor (Tom) said...

I think you are indulging in creative accounting here Mau. You are saying that because you go to certain tournaments anyway, they do not present an extra cost. The question is; extra cost to what? At some point additions such as fees, higher petrol and accommodation costs do become extra, and for some of us this will brake the camel’s back (with or without the generously offered PNZ budget service). Have you ever considered the cost of one weekend in Auckland if one comes from Masterton or Christchurch? All up it’s around $500.00 - this is for one tournament and is calculated using air travel, private car to get to airport and back, two nights accommodation plus meals and fees.

Was there any consultation with our top players and coaches before this new system was put in place as our latest attempt to select our top teams to represent us? How do they select players in Australia or Japan?

I personally believe that the advise from France was based on a French perspective. Things are different in NZ. We have a low-wage economy and geographically great distances to cover to get to tournaments (how many Auckland or Wellington players will go to Alexandra this year?). Combine this with an extremely small pool of competitive players and it should be clear that a simpler approach is needed to fit with local conditions. A super series of 3 or 4 triples tournaments divided over Auckland and Wellington would be a good start. Yes, I fear the worst for this new system. I do not think our top 6 or 8 players in NZ will want to go through all the hoops. If they don’t we are left with the players that will. Is this what we want? -Tom.

At 9:02 PM, Anonymous said...

Hi all

Hopefully this will work for the sport, and once everyone has registered by July 31st we'll know whether players are enthusiastic about this new process.

While I'm not involved at this time, and won't be registering as I don't aspire to international play, it is an interesting process. What strikes me is what a controlling and wide influence it will have. But here's a few thoughts.

Firstly, the women. The can only register as either women division or open, is this fair? Why shouldn't a woman who's good enough be in an open team? Is this equal opportunity? Is it fair? Is this what we want?

And still with the women, how will the points qualifying rank women who play in qualifying tournaments? What if they play in a mixed team? WIll there be women sections of these tournaments including the nationals? If not, how else will any assessment by the TDR be objective? Surely the ONLY was to judge is when one womens team plays another?

So will this process create gender segregation in our sport?

Thirdly, that squad members will have to play in the nationals in their trans tasman triples teams. This is a significant influence. Is this what we want? What if 2 players from the TransTasman want to play, or would prefer to play in the nationals with a 3rd who is not?

Why? Arn't we losing something as our nationals have always been the players choosing themselves who they want to play with?

Fourth, for the 1st assessment camp with 24 players based on their performances at 4 tournaments, plus their regional assessment day. These 4 tournaments (2 doubles, 2 triples) are all in the lower half of the North Island. Will players out of this area (say Auckland!) be expected to play in all 4. Will points accumulate or average over number of tournaments entered? Are some tournaments worth more points than others?

Bear with me, I know I'm going on a bit....

Fifth, Transparency. I'm sick of hearing this word about the selection process Mau. Which of our previous selection and qualification process hasn't been transparent?

Sixth, Objective. Sorry but it's a myth that any selection system can be totally objective. It's just not possible. We can have a more objective system, but not `completely objective' as the TDR describes it. And I've told Murray my thoughts on this, so it's fair for me to say it here.

Now I want to make something clear. None of the above are criticism, but concerns that should be answered for this process to work for our sport. In principle, this new process should take our sport forward. But I'm concerned that we could be 'oversold' on this, and we must be realistic about what it can achieve, and what effect this could have on our sport.

Anyway, enough of my rambling, but I hope it has raised some interesting points to consider.

Michael E

At 9:28 AM, Anonymous said...

Hi again,

Sorry but I have to add to last nights comments. This time a comment about the costs. Lots of players will want to know what it's going to cost to try and represent their country.

I'd like to just do one cost analysis, regarding the newly announced International Representation Fund.

Basic accounting is to look at Income & Expenditure. So

Income to the new fund is 16 players puting in $500 each.

Gross income for the fund $8000.

PNZ stated minimum contributions for each tournament is:

TransTasman (12 players at $100) = $1200

Asian or Singapore (4 or 6 players at $100) = $600

Womes & Open Worlds (8 players at $200) = $1600

Total Expenditure for the fund = $3400

Net profit for the fund for the year = $4600.

Each player contributing their $500 will get either $400 or $200 less than the amount they contributed.

The obvious question is - Why does the International representation Fund need to be running at a profit? Or at least retain funds for future years? Why doesn't PNZ just say that whatever is in the fund each year will be divided by the representative players? Where will the rest of the money go.

Or have I missed something completely. Is the $100 to $200 per player from PNZ in addition to whatever is in the representative fund? I hope so, but it's not the way the document reads.

Anyway, I hope that the players involved do ask PNZ for some clarification of how this new fund for international representation will be used. Or even better, we get a direct response from PNZ.

regards

Michael E

At 10:23 AM, Anonymous said...

In general i think what David and PNZ are doing is on the right track. However i would suggest that if you have confidence in these coaches then how about having confidence in a selection panel to select your players. I don’t know of any other sport where i could join a club tomorrow and pay $50 for the right to have a chance to represent my country. Please there is a lot of pride in a representative jersey weather it be regional or national and you should not pay for the right to have a chance. You should earn the right by playing and performing in club events, regional events and National. By doing this then you get selected to attend the days knowing that there is going to be a cost to you.

I again say you don’t pay for the right you earn it.

Myles.

At 1:27 PM, Anonymous said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 5:55 PM, NZPC Editor (Tom) said...

I have removed a comment. Please note that if you are going to mention other people by name, or the topic is potentially "controversial", you MUST give your name.