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TerrainEasyDifficult

Page history last edited by PBworks 16 years, 2 months ago

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This is a permanent record of a MPC Blog posting

THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2008

Terrains

HI. May I throw in this item for debate?

 

I hear regular comments that a terrain is too tough or that another terrain is not a challenge (too easy) and there appears to be a vocal minority who feel that all terrains should be made as tough as possible to reflect the playing standards at the world champs. Why is that?

 

Maybe the top 5% of players will aspire to playing at the world champs.

 

What about providing a fun and sporting environment for the other 95% of players? I’m talking about the 95% of players who only want a fun or social or semi competitive game of petanque. By semi competitive, I’m talking of the Bay view, Anzac or Masterton tournaments where a competitively social weekend is the aim and a place on the New Zealand team is not first prize.

 

The top players are mainly competent players of the high lob/plombe shot yet they often struggle to play as successfully on terrains where other player successfully execute the half lob or long rolling point. Yet we are taught to laud the plombe player who can often be beaten by the ‘Marbles player’ on what could be deemed an ‘average’ terrain.

 

By preparing only terrains that suit the high lob/plombe player we are penalizing the bulk of other players and actually creating an environment that only encourages one style of pointing and one style of shooting.

 

I have played on a number of terrains overseas and also to an international level on an internationally rated terrain against international opponents and can confirm that the over seas terrains are not all minefields strewn with half bricks etc. So why do we encourage the production of that type of terrain that relies so much on a fortunate bounce for all but the well executed plombe?.

 

Can I add that I have not seen anywhere that stipulates the plombe is the only acceptable shot to play in the game? And the carreau is not the only shot allowed in the rules so why do we pay so much lipservice to those players who practise only these styles at the expense of having a more rounded game.

 

Let the purists have a go at me but let the average players also feel that they are worthy of consideration when a new terrain is planned.

 

Cheers

Andy Gilbert


 

posted by NZPC Editor (Tom) @ 1:53 PM

10 Comments:

 

At 3:30 PM, Anonymous said...

Andy I agree with you. As a player who practices alot the art of the high lob it is much easier to perfect the role shot or three quarter shot. and in any sport there are always the purest but in my other favorite sport the best their ever was, was not a purest he played the conditions( Don Bradman)Yes the boule to boule shot looks great and the high lob fantastic but it is no good doing something that doesn't work for you.

Play to your strenths and if it wins well it cant be to bad.

 

Myles.

 

P.S

 

Sorry Mau. The petanque snob.


 

At 4:33 PM, Anonymous said...

I don't think there's a right answer to what Andy says. And I don't disagree, nor do I agree with him.

 

If players want to improve skills to an `international' level, then they should play or practice on more difficult terrains. If they don't aspire to that then they should be happy playing anywhere, but probably prefer easier terrains.

 

In my opinion, a high skill level is not about executing one particular shot - such as the plombe - but being able to control the ball and play the right shot for the conditions. Playing with the right weight, arc, accurate landing spot, spin and roll to be successful.

 

With regards to NZ terrains, I believe it's not about making them harder or easier to play one shot. But what we should do if we want to develop more skillful players is make them require greater accuracy.

 

Many of our terrains have a soft base, which is forgiving, as long as you get the right weight or feel of the shot. Rotorua and Christchurch are prime examples.

 

With a harder base, you usually have to get the throw just right - if you're a foot out with your landing spot the shot fails. And this should be encouraged.

 

Michael E


 

At 10:00 AM, Anonymous said...

The idea of the game I assume is to get the boule as close to the cochonet as possible or to remove the the closest boule to the cochonet. Does it matter what route it takes to get there, whether along the ground or via outer space! Wherever we go to play, we all have to adapt to the local conditions and sometimes it can be the weather and not the condition of the terrain that affects play. Bowlers have to adjust to slow and fast greens, golfers always have to play on different standards of fairways and greens and I think part of the fun of the game is not only being able to match or better the play of the opposition but also adapt to the playing field. The Clareville tournament in Masterton is probably the most challenging of all terrain I have played on but the tournament still attracts people from all over the country and I suspect most of those come because it is simply a bloody good weekend away.

Lets not get too precious!

Graeme Burnard


 

At 12:49 PM, Ricardo said...

Andy, I find your comment mischevious in regards to the vocal minority. Petanque is a target sport.

The challenge is to be inclusive for a wide range of pointing styles, be it a rolling point or the plombe. We should be preparing solid, hard besed terrains for our competitions, the skill in pointing is to hit your targetted landing spot with the best weight to draw close to the cush. In new Zealand however we have quite a few terrains(eg.ChCh and Rotarua) that get regular national tourniments that do not have a hard base and therefore are not inclusive for all the differtent pointing styles, in fact thay negate the plombe, and disadvantage backspin and give advantage to a more limited skill set, surely not result we are looking for as a sport, particulary for the Nationals and Internationals. A hard base will not disadvantage anyone, I suggest you keep working on your landing spot. I have played a bit overseas in Petanque countries, always there have benn hard base terrains. Perhaps it is the size of the debris (stones) on the terrain you are getting your ideas muddled with. Work on your landing spot and your game will improve. Good Luck and please lets unite in the joy of the game rather than pitting rollers aginst those that plombe.

Ricardo


 

At 1:47 PM, Anonymous said...

HI Ricardo and thanks for the thought that my thoughts are 'muddled'. If you read my initial comment carefully you may see the words "and can confirm that the over seas terrains are not all minefields strewn with half bricks etc". i kinda thought that the reference to not being strewn with halfbricks would have indicated my concerns are not with the hard or soft base but are more aimed at the practise of large pebbles/rubble being put on a terrain that only allow for a Plombe or a lucky bounce. As for the hard or soft base issue. The soft base does not favour plombe. Agreed. So why dont the plombe players develop a back up style that allows them to play successfully on all terrains.

Cheers


 

At 2:49 PM, Anonymous said...

Andy me old mate, you make practising of the plombe and carreaux sound like a bad thing!

 

I agree, play to the terrain, the All Blacks demonstrate that losing pretty doesn't keep the punters happy.

 

Soft bases do allow for attractive pointing, people can get in close, and attractive petanque is not a bad thing, but soft bases can allow for some damn ugly shooting. I agree that this is ok for social tourneys but I don't think it is ok for National or International ones.

 

I personally think we have too many soft terrains and would like to see more hard bases. I am also realistic that the majority of players would prefer the soft base however (as would probably be the case at our Napier club).

 

I disagree through that hard based terrains would only appeal to the top 5%. I think they will appeal to anyone wanting to develop their game. I also think a number of senior players with international ambitions would benefit from terrains they are more likely to find overseas so they are better prepared for internat competition such as the US tour and the Transtas.

 

Bottom line? I would like to see more terrain with a hard base for our top tourneys eventually, I'm relaxed about the social ones though, hopefully this provides an appropriate mix for our different player types.

 

Cheers

 

Mau (the raspille police)

 

PS. Myles I forgive u ;-)

 

PPS. To raspille is human, to carreaux is divine


 

At 5:48 PM, Lippardo said...

Interestingly this subject has been raised by many of our representative teams, in their reports following an overseas tournament. PNZ has made it a requirement, that managers write a report on the teams experience to impart knowledge gained and lessons learnt. Resoundingly the message is ‘if you want to improve, you must play on more challenging pitches’.

 

At the world championships ALL of the top players use the plombe and shoot on the full.

 

Most of our top players who practice these technically challenging shots are equally capable of rolling the boule along the ground to both point and shoot.

 

From my observation of play in New Zealand, when a game is played on an easy pitch the gap between our top players and the rest is narrowed and the score is close. Generally however the better players will prevail but it does make for a closer game and occasionally throws up the unexpected result. In my opinion the plombe works equally well on a soft base providing the landing spot is chosen carefully. This is all fine for the casual fun tournament BUT when we are trying to choose our strongest teams for international competition it makes no sense to play the tournament on an easy pitch.

 

Players who practiced on easy pitches in NZ then encounter very hard terrains overseas run the risk of a severe drop off in performance and a confidence crisis. This is real and has happened to a number of our representative players. It took these players years to recover and some have no desire to go back. Is this what PNZ want or is this even fair? I think PNZ has a responsibility to head the advice that has been consistent over the years and choose pitches for national competitions and international selection that are fitting. Based on the evidence of advice, Park Ave is not an ideal pitch to choose our national female team for the world championships!

 

I believe there is a place for the easy pitch, however we need to put this debate into context. I suggest that of the 1400 or so members, less than 15% take part in organised tournaments (that appear on the national and regional calendars). Of the 15% we may have 30% who aspire to representative level. There is a case therefore for many more hard pitches to be constructed.

 

Herne Bay has spent much time and effort in preparing their pitch to cater for both the casual player which constitutes the greater percentage of the club and the serious (aspiring representative) player. It is now in my opinion the best pitch in NZ by far and caters for every level of player.

 

Disturbingly, last week I was informed that PNZ rated pitches for the upcoming Trans Tasman Challenge, Christchurch scored two ticks and Herne Bay got two crosses. The trial was held at Herne Bay so it makes more sense to use this for the challenge? PNZ obviously has their reasons, what they are, remains a mystery.

 

At 3:22 PM, Anonymous said...

perfect the plombe and the piste dosen't matter.

Myles.


 

At 3:36 PM, Anonymous said...

Might I take an extract from the original posting.....

""Maybe the top 5% of players will aspire to playing at the world champs.

 

What about providing a fun and sporting environment for the other 95% of players? I’m talking about the 95% of players who only want a fun or social or semi competitive game of petanque. By semi competitive, I’m talking of the Bay view, Anzac or Masterton tournaments where a competitively social weekend is the aim and a place on the New Zealand team is not first prize."""

 

I'm glad that the posting has attracted comment but it was originally aimed as encouragement for providing terrains that challenge the average player, not catering primarily to only the top tier of player.

Might I also add that in my experience I also rate Herne Bay as one of the more challenging terrains and a worthy venue for play at the very top level. Full marks to the Herne bay club for their efforts and encouragement to PNZ to use these terrains when top level play is warranted.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, if we didnt agree, we at least aired some contra views.See you on the terrain. Cheers

Andy G


 

At 12:16 AM, Hackers said...

PNZ obviously agree that all terrains should be "neutral" as part of their reqirements for holding a National tournament is that all terrains should be "equal".

 

Personally I believe this is very short sighted of PNZ.

 

Surely the primary aim of the nationals is to find the players that can best represent NZ internationally regardless of the terrain they are presented with.

 

Accordingly shouldn't we be looking for terrains with the greastest range of variations possible, after all you always play your opposition on the same terrain (unless I'm mistaken), in this way we are see which teams can perform under a range of conditions.

 

As for social play I see no difference, again you play your opponent on the same piste so part of the contest is surely which team can handle the conditions of the the piste best, whether it be roller friendly or not.

 

Regards

 

Grant Hackett


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